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Post by CrazyBrit on Feb 15, 2018 21:09:12 GMT -8
So, my Tacoma joined my project list a week ago. The night before I headed off for work, the check engine light and "traction control off" lights came on at startup. This also initiated the "limp home" mode, which is a problem when you live at the top of a big hill. I bought it new at Nanaimo Toyota in late 2012, the powertrain warranty expired in September last year and it has 56000kms on the clock. My wife took it to Nanaimo Toyota this week, they read the codes, cleaned the secondary injection air valves and put it back together for $70. However, they said if the CEL returned, we would need to replace the pump and the valves. Cost? $2633 plus taxes. WTF? Guess what happened when she drove it home. I have yet to speak with Toyota Canada (Nanaimo Toyota's service department are as much use as tits on a nun), but I expect that it will be a waste of time. This is a common problem on the Tundras and Sequoias, which has been recognised by Toyota and they have repaired them on warranty. Not so for the Tacomas. This also affects certain Lexus models, which are really just Toyotas tarted up in fancy clothes. I know at least two people on this site have FJs (which I understand have Tacoma drivetrains), so I thought I should post up for their information and to see if anyone else has experienced this. I have been researching this and the problem seems to affect 2012 Tacomas, specifically ones with low mileage. I'm not certain if this could be related to them running on short runs like mine often does. Basically there are two problems: "1. Valve and/or pump failure caused by moisture. This effects 2012 Tacomas, apparently a lot. 13+ have the very same parts but run the pump a bit after shut down to purge any moisture. This appears to dramatically reduce the failure rate due to moisture in 13+, though of course it may just defer the failure to higher mileages. 2. Pump failure caused by ingestion of the upstream foam filter. This effects all models including 13+. It appears to be far less frequent than the moisture failure in 2012 models, but it definitely occurs. Owners can do some DIY mitigation ahead of time by replacing the precariously placed crappy foam filter with something more robust. But of course if you only find this thread because your truck threw a code it is a little too late for preventative measures. While the foam ingestion pump failure is a stupid and dimwitted design it doesn't seem to occur at a high enough rate to expect a TSB or warranty extension. The 2012 moisture failure though really should be a TSB and warranty extension because it is so common and 13+ applied a mitigation already with different ECU firmware. " (borrowed from TacomaWorld.com) I'll figure out what is wrong when I get home and have the opportunity to dismantle the secondary air system. It seems that Toyota always want to replace both the pump and the valves, but I am only intending to replace one component at a time - I am expecting the valves. Several owners on TacomaWorld have replaced the crappy foam filter that apparently disintegrates and destroys your pump with crankcase breather filters. I will be making this modification to mine. Here is the TacomaWorld thread for anyone who is interested. www.tacomaworld.com/threads/secondary-air-injection-switching-valve.381997/I am seriously thinking of switching brands, but I'm not convinced that any of the other dealers or brands have any better integrity, or that I would necessarily be upgrading my vehicle.
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Post by tony on Feb 15, 2018 22:41:52 GMT -8
Modern technology.......ARGHHHHHH!
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Post by mitchy965 on Feb 15, 2018 23:05:01 GMT -8
your powertrain warranty may have expired but thought emission systems were covered for 8 years?? (not that i have ever bought a new car with a warranty!)is the stealer, i mean dealer the only source for parts? most of this stuff is usually easy to replace.
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Post by CrazyBrit on Feb 16, 2018 7:21:38 GMT -8
It's easy to replace, but the cost is hard to swallow on a relatively new, low mileage and fully dealer serviced vehicle. Most of the cost is in the components - $2393 for parts, $240 for labour. Two hours labour for a trained Toyota tech even seems a bit much for what needs to be done. I expect it to take me less time and I am far from mechanically adept!
The annoying part is that the same components are used in the 2013 -15 trucks, but they do not seem to suffer the same failure rate as the 2012's. Most on the forums are attributing this to modified ECU programming for the 2013 model year that runs the pump on shutdown to purge the moisture from the valves and reduce the corrosion. Until Toyota recognises that it is a problem though, there is no re-flash available for the 2012 ECU, so the problem is likely to reoccur with OEM parts. There is no aftermarket valve kit available as far as I can tell.
There is a bypass kit available, which blanks off the valves and stops the pump from operating. However they put the system in there for a reason, so I am not sure if this is a good idea long term. As best as I can tell it is purely emissions equipment to reduce the quantity of unburnt fuel in the cat, but I suspect that long term not having this could damage the cat. I planned on keeping this vehicle for another 10 years, so longevity is an issue for me.
California vehicles seem to have a longer emissions warranty, but it appears from what I am reading that Toyota Canada is telling their customers to pound sand.
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Post by CrazyBrit on Feb 16, 2018 18:15:01 GMT -8
After researching this online for around 5 hours, I finally found a copy of an internal Toyota Service Bulletin. The TSB was dated 11th January 2018, so it is brand new as of last month. Either Toyota Canada hasn’t sent this out yet or the managers in Nanaimo haven't told their people about it. Either way, they quoted my wife $2633 plus taxes for what is now essentially a warranty item.
Basically the TSB issued by Toyota USA acknowledges the problem and provides an unlimited mileage warranty until 29th February 2019 for the secondary air injection system, then provides an extended secondary warranty to 10 years and 150000 miles. They have also issued a refund program for those who have already completed the repairs. I now have to hope and prey that Toyota Canada will honour the warranty.
If not, the next step that I had planned was to replace the valves with Tundra parts, which have already gone through this fiasco. They are available in the aftermarket and are consequently way cheaper.
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Post by Volktales on Feb 16, 2018 22:57:36 GMT -8
So, did a little investigating of your problem. Luckily Rebecca's FJ Cruiser is a very early production model built in 2006, and does not use an secondary air injection pump. Some engines use these systems; many do not. Basically all the system does is use an electric pump to blow air into the exhaust system under certain circumstances via one or two solenoid valves. VW has the same idea on certain models and they are not very reliable either. The problem is condensation build up gets into the electric motor and seizes it up on the VWs. As you have previously read, this is primarily due to the electric motors not actually being required to run very long. We are talking only about 30 seconds on start up at specific temperatures. Newer software that allows a longer run time probably does help longevity...
If Toyota MIGHT cover it, then let them deal with it. It sucks that your truck goes into "limp" mode over this. The Volkswagens don't do this, and the engine runs just fine without the secondary air injection (SAI) functioning. In reality the SAI system ONLY affects emissions and would NOT make your truck run poorly. Toyota intentionally triggered the limp mode to force you to get it fixed. This MAY be a government mandated thing on newer models. Very sad when you realize how little this component actually does... Anyway as I have found out dealing with the Acura, what is covered under warranty in litigation happy USA, is not necessarily done in Canada. You might have to fight for this for Toyota to smarten up and cover it...
Having said that, if they won't pay, then at least have an attempt to fix it yourself. It is going to be crap from the filter stuck in the fan, burnt up motor, blown fuse, carbon choked valves, or damaged reed valve, or possibly rat chewed wiring (more common then you think). Toyota's pricing for these parts is stupid. Like Mitchy said earlier, this is an emissions system failure problem and it should be covered under warranty for a very long time...
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Post by CrazyBrit on Feb 22, 2018 15:31:49 GMT -8
Toyota Canada is refusing to do anything with this. I guess their statements about "Toyota cares about the customer's ownership experience" in their US literature doesn't apply to the same truck in Canada. Apparently Toyota Canada has never heard of this problem before, even though the dealership admitted to me today that they've seen this several times.
Anyway, I am still stuck with a broken truck whether they pay or not. So I started by checking the pump, because it's easier to get at than the valves. The pump looks in perfect condition inside and out, but is not delivering any air on startup. The filter was intact, the pump was dry inside, the vanes are intact, but no air. When I bench test the pump, it runs just fine - just not when connected to the vehicle.
The original code "secondary air injection valve stuck open bank 2". When I blow into the air delivery hose it is air tight - ie I can't blow through it. Suggestions anyone?
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Post by Volktales on Feb 22, 2018 22:37:23 GMT -8
I have not seen this system on a Toyota in person. I did watch a youtube video showing it, and one of the two solenoid reed type valves was jammed open. hose two valves are connected via a common pipe from the pump assembly.
In this video, he shows that one of the two valves was faulty. You blew into the hose leading to these valve assemblies? I would say carbon issues are more likely than solenoid failure. With regards to the pump not actually running, they will only run when the control module tells them too, which is only under certain circumstances. What was the actual code number???
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Post by Volktales on Feb 22, 2018 22:59:03 GMT -8
P1444?
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Post by Volktales on Feb 23, 2018 8:19:54 GMT -8
Did a check on our shop computer this morning. Your code as described indicates a faulty solenoid valve problem, specifically with the valve not sealing shut. This will be a problem with the reed valve, and can be tweaked to be repaired. You will have to remove the assembly however to access.
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Post by CrazyBrit on Feb 24, 2018 20:43:50 GMT -8
Thanks Russ. The code was P2442 - "secondary air injection valve stuck open bank 2".
I had read several reports of people cleaning the solenoids and valves, then reinstalling them only to have the problem reoccur a few hundred, or if they were really lucky, a few thousand kms later. The problem that I was particularly concerned with was the truck going into limp mode when the valve sticks. If this was on a highway, it would not be fun trying to drive at 50 kph with traffic flying past.
So, yesterday morning, I picked up a new set of aftermarket valves from Lordco and installed them on the drive in the snow. Toyota quoted $1236, Napa quoted $525 and Lordco was the cheapest at $476, for the same brand as Napa. I normally prefer OEM, but when the OEM parts are failing at such an early stage, there's little point in paying the premium.
Initially I had found that there were no aftermarket valves available. Then I discovered that some people were using Dorman Tundra valves, which they were removing from the new Tundra manifold and installing on the original Tacoma manifold. I had to dismantle the air intake side of the engine to gain access, but everything came apart and went back together easily. It now has copper slip anti-seize on all of the bolts to make it easier next time it happens, which I expect it will. Once I reconnected the battery, the fault had cleared and it is now back to normal operation. It was interesting to note the comments of seized bolts on the Toyota forums - I guess these people are not used to working on old cars! A quick squirt of Moovit and all was well for me.
On a lighter note, I accidentally discovered that these vehicles have an electronic actuator to unlock the driver's door. I had dismantled everything the previous night to determine the state of the valves. Then I dropped the hood, manually locked the doors and left it for the night - with the battery disconnected. Then yesterday morning I tried to unlock the driver's door only to find that the key did nothing. A quick "Oh *$#*" moment and a Google search later revealed that you have to pull the handle first and then turn the key if the battery is dead. My heart rate returned to normal! I won't be trying that again.
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Post by tony on Sept 22, 2019 6:38:43 GMT -8
Hey Mark 'that was me waving out the window of the Tacoma' reminded me of your valve situation a year and a half back , just wondered if the fix held and everything remains status quo? 🤞
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Post by CrazyBrit on Sept 22, 2019 13:09:12 GMT -8
About 6 weeks after I repaired the vehicle, I received a letter from Toyota Canada stating that they had discovered a problem with the secondary injection valves on the 2012 Tacoma and that they were now going to be offering a 10 year or 150 000 km warranty on these parts and the labour involved. I went back to Toyota, but because I had used aftermarket parts they would not cover my expenditure. As a "goodwill gesture", they agreed to remove the aftermarket parts that I had installed and repair the vehicle with the factory Toyota parts authorised by the new warranty. I was not best pleased that it ended this way, but they replaced the valves and air pump. I have had no problems since, but my aftermarket Dorman valves are boxed up in the garage in case this happens again after the extended warranty expires. If only I had waited another six weeks...
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Post by tony on Sept 22, 2019 16:25:08 GMT -8
That's irritating , I tend to have similar timing. The consolation prize was ok.
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Post by CrazyBrit on Sept 22, 2019 19:02:50 GMT -8
Yes, it really sucked at the time, bit then other people have much bigger problems dealt to them. I'm back in love with my Tacoma again. Even after my Scirocco, it's still easily the best modern vehicle I have ever owned.
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