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Post by tony on Jan 2, 2020 1:09:01 GMT -8
Just wondered if anyone had any ideas regarding a 500mA (0.5A) battery drain I've been having. With vehicle off , key out , dome lights off , doors closed I've been having a half Amp drain on the battery. With the 4 year old (small) stock battery it will be drained to 10 or so volts by morning , providing zero cranking. After removing the battery and charging it and leaving it on the bench for several days it seems to hold a charge well and still be at 12.5 or so volts and can be put in the vehicle to easily start it. So I tried another battery I had which is bigger and better and will hold enough of a charge to just manage a morning start after sitting in the vehicle overnight , but just barely (because of the half amp drain in the vehicle). While the battery was out I noticed the neg. battery cable to the block looked nasty so I swapped it out (now it's nice and shiny like everything else) It seems to be a decent battery too! I put a clamp-on DC ammeter on the battery cable and the half amp drain does not change when I pulled all the fuses one at a time , I also disconnected the harness plus large battery wire on the alternator , still half Amp drain! I got the Alternator rebuilt at Flesh Elec. about 3 or so years back and it's charging at about 14.2 volts. The vehicle runs well and everything seems to work ok. The only aftermarket item (which also works well) was installed about five years ago is a remote door lock with it's own fuses which I pulled and checked too. If the battery is getting older could the voltage be a bit too low for the electronics to drop into sleep mode? Any bright ideas out there , what else can I check? Thanks...….Tony  |
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Post by magikbus on Jan 2, 2020 7:47:21 GMT -8
Does that model have a computer or something that does the same job as a computer but is called something else? If so does the computer have a fuse?
Stan
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Post by Volktales on Jan 2, 2020 8:29:40 GMT -8
Sooo, I looked up a few things. Two fairly common problems on the Element with respect to battery draw are: A/C compressor clutch relay and/or condenser relay sticking on. If the A/C compressor clutch stays engaged, you will have a fat draw. It seems to me in the past I have ran across this in a Honda of some sort... The second problem on this model is an amplifier unit. It seems some of these were equipped with dealer upgrade amps that were wired in such a way that the amp stayed running without the key on. If you have this amp, then remove fuse that would be at or near the battery terminal to see if draw goes away. If your battery passes a load test, and holds a charge when not connected to the car, then I doubt it is causing the problem. I assume it is charging fine in the car. Draws can be fun to track down, especially on modern cars. A common problem on many vehicles (not specifically Hondas) is the rear wiper motor malfunctioning. Once, on a cold icy morning, you could actually see the melted spot on the rear hatch of a minivan, where the energized, but not running electric motor was sitting... Anyway check out the above mentioned things first. If you have an aftermarket radio, be suspect of that. Suspect ANY aftermarket systems, and disable them for testing purposes... When I get back to work, I can look up other specific draw points on this model...
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Post by tony on Jan 2, 2020 11:22:19 GMT -8
Stan , there are loads of relays and fuses with all kinds of different names , basically groups of letters that stands for who knows what , I've gone through them all one at a time and the half amp draw doesn't change. I would hope whatever name the computer(s) go by would be protected by a fuse 'in' one of the 17 fuse boxes (only 2 really (I hope)).
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Post by tony on Jan 2, 2020 11:51:42 GMT -8
Russ I was hoping that pulling the fuses one at a time would take care of the potential A/C relay(s) problem . I also disconnected the incoming power wires to the engine compartment fuse box with no change in draw. Stereo is OE and that fuse was checked. About 5 years ago Mad Man installed a remote locking fob thing to overcome the horrendous 🤮 door key tumbler system , which works well and the installation looks very tidy. It also has five of it's own fuses which I went through also. The trailer hitch setup was factory delivered if memory serves (it may not serve!). I don't see any random wires stealing a hot from any of the fuse boxes. I'm wondering if there is a frayed wire jacket somewhere coming directly off the pos. battery post , pre fuse box or other direct battery connection?!?!
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Post by Brenticon on Jan 2, 2020 14:15:18 GMT -8
Time to trade it in .....  |
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Post by tony on Jan 2, 2020 17:34:57 GMT -8
This just in...….I probably didn't pay enough attention to my amp readings , the negative wire from battery to engine block shows 500mA drain and the other negative wire from battery to chassis shows 300 mA for a total of 800 mA drain. Shouldn't these two readings be almost the same? Maybe a bad ground somewhere between chassis and engine block?!?! 😓
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Post by Volktales on Jan 2, 2020 19:17:02 GMT -8
Did you pull out those relays, one by one? The difference in amp draws might show up due to the different wire diameters. I don't think the draw values would be additive, however. Definitely cleaning the terminals would be a good idea. On one vehicle I previously worked on, the draw was the rear wiper motor. Pulling fuses did not reveal this. Actually had to physically disconnect the plug to the motor to remove the draw... Did you find all the different fuse boxes? Sometimes there are sneaky hidden ones, although I am not familiar enough with the Element to tell you where they are. I WILL be able to tell you on Monday, when I have access to the shop computer...
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Post by tony on Jan 2, 2020 20:41:20 GMT -8
Thanks Russ ,yep I did the relays one by one yesterday and all the fuses too. I tried the clamp-on ammeter onto both of the same sized ground wires coming off the battery at the same time and it showed 0.8 amps which is equal to the 0.5 plus the 0.3 , which in my simple mind shows that maybe there is a resistance between the chassis and the block?!?! I'll look for the harness for the rear wiper and try that. I'll try recleaning the battery terminals too.
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Post by magikbus on Jan 2, 2020 20:56:33 GMT -8
I could be wrong, I was once..... OK enough humour. But a rusty or corroded ground connector wouldn't result in a draw on the battery. Unless a high draw appliance like a starting motor was activated and then the corroded ground connector would show up as an "increased draw". But a vehicle just sitting there with a bad ground shouldn't draw current from the battery. I think Russ is closer to it with the suggestion that some aftermarket appliance has gone wonkers (sorry for the technical terms) and is drawing current full time, bypassing the fuse box.
Stan
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Post by tony on Jan 2, 2020 21:57:42 GMT -8
Finding a needle in a haystack is one thing but I have to find the right haystack first lol
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Post by Brenticon on Jan 2, 2020 22:01:47 GMT -8
Canadian Tire sells battery isolators, lol
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Post by tony on Jan 2, 2020 22:41:04 GMT -8
Actually I have one that's about 400A worth , I'll probably install it temporarily for three weeks and then the ol' lady will be on holiday and I won't have to crawl around in the mud on the driveway in the dark and in the rain (snow today) when she gets home from work! (it just wont be dark , lol) Oh what's that dear...… you want me to go work on the car …... now?.... at 10:30 pm? …...right away dear! |
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Post by tony on Jan 3, 2020 21:36:37 GMT -8
Intermittent problem?!?! The ol' lady got home from work with the Element at 4:00 pm , so I was going to throw the charger on as per usual but I thought I would try both my Ammeters first , after the engine is shut off it's drawing 1.3 amps then dome light goes out and it's drawing 0.2 amps and 30 seconds later it's drawing 20mA , fired it up …...same again?!?! Out she goes again at 6:00 pm back at 9 , I go out check it all again …..all good?!?! Oh well 'IF' (when) it acts up again hopefully it's in the summer!  |
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Post by Volktales on Jan 3, 2020 23:02:42 GMT -8
Intermittent problems are fun. We HATE it when we get them at the shop, because they have a tendency to work perfectly while they are there...
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