Rant: Border BS Bringing a Car Through

[PICTUP]

Well as some of you know I recently bought a 1964 Saab in the USA. A few weeks weeks after the purchase, I had all my paperwork in order, including the ad, the wire transfer amount bank documentation, the signed title, and the all-important the ITN generated through the very nice people at A&A Border Buddy Services. The three day wait period had been satisfied and I was okayed to bring the car through the border.



On my way back from picking up the car in Seattle I had already filled out the ArriveCan and I thought the American Border Services was open until 5pm. Turns out I was wrong on that count, but I did get there plenty early in the afternoon on a weekday because I knew it took some time to process. The procedure has changed somewhat since I last came thru or I had forgotten they actually need to sight the VIN. I ended up locking the FJ and leaving the Saab on the trailer next to the kiosk, where it should be at the Pacific Border crossing. Locking the FJ was a mistake and not lifting the hood for the VIN on the Saab was my second mistake. Once I finally found the new location of the Border Services I went in and submitted the paperwork to an officer. I waited and waited and waited. While I waited I got talking with a guy bringing a line truck up from Texas for a BC company. He told me the error of my ways and I deliberated on going back to the car to open the Saab hood, but he said, "Don't do it!". So there I stayed. But before long someone called my name and approached me. He wanted to see the VIN. I had to give him the keys to my FJ and tell him where to find the Saab keys(in my briefcase in the passenger footwell) and how to open the hood of the car. The next half hour was a little nerve wracking, but eventually he came back with my keys told me I was okay to go. Whew! Then he asked me, "Why a Saab of that vintage?" and showed general interest in the car. I figure it was because he had seen so few and he was obviously a car guy. We kept the chat brief because I was now on my way to the Canadian side....

The Canadian side of the border entry with a vehicle has always been hit-and-miss. It had been a while since I had last imported a car, so I was a tad rusty. In all at that time I had imported seven vehicles, six thru this crossing, a 1978 VW Riviera Camper(driven thru), a 1977 VW Westfalia(on a trailer), a 1965 Saab(non running on a trailer), a 1964 Saab(in pieces on a trailer), my 1970 VW Single Cab(driving), and a 1969 Squareback(non-running on a trailer). The 1965 Shorty VW Truck was already up here and importation was a somewhat different procedure. The hardest of all of these was BY FAR the 1965 Saab. Volktales was an intimate witness to this one as he was coerced into helping me retrieve it from Marysville, WA. Seems some noob woman border agent got my ticket that day on the Canadian side. She proceeded to try to draw-and-quarter me by letting me know that she had foundon her computer that exact car for sale some months back for something like $14K USD. She gave me every opportunity to "Tell the truth" regarding the sale. Russ and I were stuck in that building for 2.5 hours while they talked behind the desk calling me up every now and then to ask me if I was now going to "come clean" on the purchase price. Since I had "found" that car by soliciting thru craigslist, I had no advertisement and no way to prove what I had paid, other than my bank draft receipt. She phoned the seller too, scaring him into believing we live in a police state. It was a grueling experience that left me dumbfounded, and Russ worried that we were never going to get back into Canada! We did eventually though, without any more money than tax exchanging hands. That was a very long day from the earliest ferry start to I think the last one home.

So could this be a foreshadowing of what was to come? May-be..... more to come...

[Volktales]

I remember that experience well.  The complete lack of professionalism on her part was incredible.  There is no way she would have lasted in a "normal" job, but sadly she was not the only agent who acted that way...  While Don was dealing with her, I spent my time there listening in on conversations involving other agents.  Serious attitude adjustments would be highly recommended...

[owdlvr]

Yup. Thanks to that crossing and a similar pair of border guards my record has permanent notes about me "not coming clean" on a car. The annoying part is it's the ONLY time I've told the absolute hard and honest truth about a car value coming through. I had photos, receipts, all the evidence. But no, my rusty car with plywood floors was "worth a minimum of $15,000".

[PICTUP]

Aug 3, 2022 9:59:02 GMT -8 owdlvr said:

Yup. Thanks to that crossing and a similar pair of border guards my record has permanent notes about me "not coming clean" on a car. The annoying part is it's the ONLY time I've told the absolute hard and honest truth about a car value coming through. I had photos, receipts, all the evidence. But no, my rusty car with plywood floors was "worth a minimum of $15,000".

That sucks. Did you appeal? My recent red Saab has more to the story...

[PICTUP]

Okay, so back to June 2 2022....

Everything in order? Check. Cleared thru US Customs? Check. On my way to the Canadian gate then. At the Canadian booth I was grilled as to what I was bringing back. Of course I had some wine and some other foodstuffs I declared, but the big one of course was the car with Pennsylvania plates sitting on a trailer attached to my vehicle. From my seller, I had bought the car for $5K USD with ad in hand, I had also bought $4K worth of fancy wheels and parts, and I had paid $2.2K for shipping. I explained that all to the Border agent. It didn't really seem to register, but we muddled thru it. She then told me to, "Go park as directed by an officer and make your way inside and get in line 'A' ". "Will do", I said and did so. There was no line-up and I went straight to the person at the wicket...my first mistake. What I should have done was to get a Form 1 from the pile to the right of the outside door and fill it out, and the Agent at the wicket told me to do so. Alrighty. Most of this form does not apply to vintage vehicles, so I could really only fill out a few things. Back to line'A'.

Once back at the counter(still no line)the agent looked over the form and started asking me for paperwork. Now I have to say, I am not the coolest cucumber when it comes to places like this nor doctor's offices. My heartrate goes up and I probably seem a bit nervous. But I really try to keep my head and answer truthfully and concisely. Like Dave above, I actually, this time, told the whole truth and had documents to support it. I got a blank stare. I am pretty sure one of the first things this agent said to me was, "So I am going to give you a second to consider telling me the truth about what you paid". I told him that WAS what I paid. He didn't flinch. In fact we went round and round this way for a couple of times. Then he left and told me to sit down. So I did. At this point I should have got out my phone to video what was going on, but I was hoping it would go more smoothly from then on. Nope. When he called me back up he told me that, "You looked like the kind of guy that would try to put one over on the government and not declare what you actually paid". So what is one to say to this? I referred him to my bank transfer amounts, the ad, and the paperwork from the US. He wasn't having any of it and again asked me if I "wanted to tell" what I actually paid. Oh man, what is one to do when one is first of all being profiled and second of all one's actual documentation is being refused as real and true?? He then asked to see correspondence I had had with the seller. I told him it was thru FB and I did not have that on my cell phone. I did have however, texts. He wanted to see those. After looking at the conversation thread, the agent told me it looked as though I was "coaching" my seller to say certain things. I find it an interesting take on a conversation where I reminded the seller that if the Border Services was to call, be sure to stick to the numbers I paid...i.e. the truth and nothing but the truth...because the last thing I needed was any whiff of anything false for the Border to try to skewer me with. Well, so much for that. I was told to sit down while he went to talk with his supervisor. Upon being called up again after many minutes he asked me if I wanted to write something down that he would take to his supervisor to "support my case". I asked to talk with his supervisor and I was denied. So I wrote down what I had been saying all along. The next time he came back he called me up. He said to me that he, this 24 year old snot faced kid, "knew cars" and that my ad was fake and I had paid more for the Saab. Consequently, my Saab was being SEIZED. I was going to have to come up with not only the Tax of $700, but $2780.58 to spring my car from impound. At this point it was close to 5pm and I didn't have a credit card nor bank card that could cover the total amount. The Saab remained on my trailer. When I tried to have my wife pay with her credit car over the phone, they would not accept it and another border agent completely deadpan took great pleasure in telling me that it was my problem and he couldn't help me. His actual words were, "I dunno man, it's your problem". I managed to keep from punching him in the face and walked out. The solution was to have my wife go to the bank(5 minutes before closing!)and have the nice teller that I have dealt with for some time, up my debit limit for one day. It saved me, and I was finally out of there. The whole thing took two hours, but I am sure it took a couple of years off my life.

Before leaving that office I learned that I could appeal the decision. I did not know how they came up with the actual amount for the seizure, but I wasn't about to stick around and ask as I was a little more than pissed off at this point.

Three weeks later, after I could finally read the documents I decided to appeal. I also decided to complain about the conduct of the Border Services personnel. So what happened? Do you want to know? More later if anyone does....

[Volktales]

I already know what happened, but it would definitely be of interest to others here for sure...

[PICTUP]

Aug 3, 2022 21:05:14 GMT -8 Volktales said:

it would definitely be of interest to others here for sure...

Think so?

[owdlvr]

I definitely want to know. My car was also seized, I was stripped of my Nexus card, and billed some obscene amount like you. In my case, after consulting three lawyers it was recommended I do not appeal the situation because I travel so much, and an appeal is guaranteed to make every crossing a huge problem.

While I still lost my Nexus, and can't get it back (or the benefits) for seven years. I had my record corrected at _the same border crossing_ 14 days later. How? Well that's a good story perhaps for another time. But corrected well enough that the next time I crossed (through an airport) the Customs agent spent 5min reviewing my file, looked up at me and said "Wow. That is definitely well documented and I don't think you're going to have a problem moving forward."

[PICTUP]

That totally sucks Dave. Did they even look at the rusted out car? Do you have any photo documentation of what it looked like coming thru the border? Nobody should be treated that way, especially people like yourself that has had so many border crossings and a business that is so very cross-border.

In my case, I not only put a complaint in, but an appeal. Both were submitted on-line. I found the complaint form on the website, whereas the seizure form outlined where I was to go on the gov't site. Each took me a couple hours to compose and write/type out. It was hard to relive all the details because I got mad all over again. But I pushed thru it and was as honest and straightforward in recounting ALL the details as best I could of the incident at the border. I also mentioned how they never went out to look at the car from what I knew and included how I was not allowed to speak with a supervisor even though I asked. Then I sent them off.

The complaint was the first to draw a response. I got an email from a Pacific Crossing supervisor asking me what time he could call, if I were to provide him with a number. The next day he called and I had to go through it AGAIN, but that was no surprise. I was polite, but forceful about the treatment I received because what more could I be? Anyhow, we talked for an hour or so. He said he was going to consider all what we talked about and decide what action to take. I asked if I could find out what action would be taken and the answer was of course,"No". Seems privacy of information precludes the accuser knowing. Makes me wonder why complain? But it did get it off my chest anyway. The supervisor did say that he was unable to tell me about the status of my Appeal. So I had to be prepared to wait.

I heard nothing from my Appeal, like it was being processed or anything like that, since I had sent it in. I had only received a confirmation that I had sent it at the time, but no acknowledgement of it being received(via email or anything). I was getting closer to writing a letter to my MP but then I looked wait times on appeals. It said up to 310 days! Christ, I started to lose hope, not that I had much to begin with. Then, just before the long weekend I got a notice of something I thought was a parcel in the mail. I figured it was the oil pump being sent up for Russ. Being that I wasn't feeling well, I thought it could wait until the next week. By Tues I was feeling a bit better and remembered to get the "parcel". It turned out to be a Registered letter from the Canadian Border Services Agency, the Recourse Directorate Program in Ottawa. Of course I ripped it open in the Post Office, fingers practically trembling. It was from the Senior Program Advisor and it had more legal jargon than I like. But I finally got to where it started to make sense. Apparently these decisions are never sent via email, just snail mail. It said:

"Based on the evidence on file, I have determined that there has not been a contravention of 7.1 of the Customs Act as noted and described in the above-noted enforcement action. Accordingly, the enforcement action and all Canada Border Services Agency(CBSA) enforcement records relating to this incident will be cancelled.

"As the enforcement action has been cancelled, the money collected for the release of the seized 1964 Saab 96 in the amount of $2780.58 will be returned to you, with interest if applicable, under separate cover. Please allow six to eight weeks to process this cheque.

"The agency apologizes for any inconvenience this matter may have caused.

"I trust that this letter satisfactorily explains the ministerial decisions in this matter. If you have any questions please contact the Appeals Office...."

So there you have it. Vindication and cancellation of the next 7 years of being searched every time I come thru the Canadian Border into my country of birth. I am so relieved it worked out this way, but what a HUGE hassle! It shows that one MUST complain to get attention and not just believe that things are what they are and cannot be reversed. I was in the right and I knew it, and thankfully higher powers saw it the same way.

[just me]

Congratulation Don, when I first suggested the "squeaky wheel" approach, you purposefully said you needed to calm way down first.
Glad you followed through and got the best result. My only puzzle is that your last sentence was Very wrong...but I'm sure you meant "lower powers"...right!

[mitchy965]

it seems to me lately that every and any public servant I deal with displays a complete distain for the public. I was recently warned in a govt office that me asking questions about my issues they caused was enough for them to call the rcmp! no raised voices, no harsh language, no threats of any kind just a firm but gentile reminder that they work for the public and to please do their job. I feel that because of all the insulations provided to protect them they have become somewhat above the law (sound familiar) and use this to escape their duties and exhibit a vindictive and callous attitude towards their boss....US! Maybe its just that Mitchy is bitchy but when its the local, provincial and federal govt playing this game I am skeptical its just me.

[PICTUP]

I don't think it is just you Mitch. IMO most anyone connected to the gov't in any way seems to be on "high alert" for anyone even looking at them sideways. The first signage I see at my local post office is that strong language or verbal abuse will not be tolerated. Now I am not condoning non-cordial behaviour in any way, but does it have to be in MY face right off the bat? Also it makes me ask the question, why is that sign there in the first place? I have never seen anyone even close to losing it in the Post Office, Border, Doctor's office or wherever. I suppose it happens and maybe they have become sensitized to it during the pandemic where perhaps it was more prevalent? I dunno. I do know, like Mitch says, it is becoming harder to "stick up" for your position. Sometimes the only way is to be a bit more vocal , be it in person or email/letter or whatever. One strategy I think is best, and that is to ask to talk with a supervisor of some sort. Most people at the counter are just paid workers trying to do their job which is based on rules they did not have a hand in making, so skirting them might lead to a supervisor with "thicker skin" as it were. In my case, I believe the Agent was out of line especially when he actually told me, unsolicited, that I "looked like the kind of guy..." and proceeded to not allow me to talk with a supervisor.

[1hotvw]

well, we always thought you looked , kinda like that guy.

[CrazyBrit]

Aug 8, 2022 12:49:14 GMT -8 PICTUP said:

The first signage I see at my local post office is that strong language or verbal abuse will not be tolerated.

Sadly I used to get to see the other side of this on a regular basis, both on the cruise ships and on the ferries. The "I've paid for my ticket and therefore own you and can treat you like dirt" attitude was all too prevalent. It was even more noticeable on the ferries, where passengers would take out their frustration with the system on the Deckhand parking them on the car deck in a spot they didn't like. I always figured that the fact the Company was government owned and essentially a government organization made the sense of ownership even worse. And no, the staff weren't always perfect either, but having some asshole yell at you because he felt he should be parked over there or be off the ship before the person in the other line to save 3 minutes is not what you go to work for.

It's a sad World when we have to remind everyone just to treat each other with the respect that we ourselves expect to be treated. One would think that this should be the basis of our society, but I have seen this frequently both with staff and customers alike.

Especially after the last couple of years, I always try to remember that I don't know whats going on in the other person's life, whether he just had some bad news, got yelled at someone else or whatever.

The above said, I can't understand why a border patrol person would feel it acceptable to query a customer's honesty as Don has described. I have always had decent experiences with the Canadian customs and border personnel. It was the Yanks that I dreaded when traveling and would request to board ships through Canada rather than the US for that reason.

[yrunvs]

Don,

I know how you feel! There's no reasoning with someone who's already made up their mind about you.

A bully enjoys being a bully. To him/her you deserve the abuse.

Since "what goes around,comes around", those border guards will, someday, "get theirs".

Cheers, John