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Post by CrazyBrit on Jun 26, 2015 16:52:00 GMT -8
So, my bus is pretty much back together. A few days ago, I tried starting it to try to set the timing properly and set up the carb'. It went click, rumble, rumble. Not a nice, correct VW rumble, but a starter motor with the flu type of rumble. I tried a different battery and have removed the starter for bench testing. The solenoid kicks the starter out, but it only turns occasionally. It is a 6v Bosch EED starter, which appears to be original to the vehicle. My limited knowledge of the starter motor tells me that either there is a problem with the contact in the solenoid after the starter kicks out which is not allowing the power to the starter, or that the brushes or windings are kapput. I found a nice article online that tells me how to dismantle and clean up the inside of the solenoid, however I am suspecting the brushes. I only have a couple of days to work on this next week, so want to get ahead of the game.
Does anyone know if the brushes are available locally? Any other suggestions of how to fix this thing and avoid spending $200 on a Chinese imported piece of junk that will die within a week of the warranty expiring, if it has one?
My other option is to pull the motor out, replace the flywheel and install a 12v starter, which I happen to have lying around. Don't really want to do that if I don't have to!
The next problem is that the engine does not want to idle, when it starts. I have temporarily plugged the vacuum ports on the carb' and the manifold seals are new. I am suspecting that this is the combination of a Solex 34 PICT 3 and an aftermarket 009 dizzy. From my online reading, apparently these two are not the best of friends and the carb' does not allow the engine to idle well owing to the lack of the vaccuum advance dizzy. I have a grotty original SVDA dizzy that I am going to attempt to rebuild, but the instructions that I have found online state that you need to procure some fibre washers. Has anyone ever done this before and know where to find said washers please? Or does anyone know how to make the 34 PICT 3 work with the 009 for now?
Hopefully I'll get it running before the snow starts....
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Post by tony on Jun 26, 2015 17:42:51 GMT -8
Hey Mark could there be a bushing issue , I think the armature is fully supported by the bushing on the bushing side ,if the bushing is badly worn or just the wrong one the starter possibly won't even rotate or just make grinding , groaning noises  |
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Post by CrazyBrit on Jun 26, 2015 18:17:34 GMT -8
Are you referring to the bushing within the starter motor, or the one pressed into the bellhousing?
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Post by PICTUP on Jun 26, 2015 18:32:13 GMT -8
How high did you have to jack it up ?  …… Sorry I had to, for Tony's enjoyment  That whole carb/distributor thing sounds like you are in Russ or Mitch territory  |
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Post by tony on Jun 26, 2015 18:41:52 GMT -8
sorry , bellhousing
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Post by tony on Jun 26, 2015 18:50:12 GMT -8
How high did you have to jack it up ? …… Sorry I had to, for Tony's enjoyment That whole carb/distributor thing sounds like you are in Russ or Mitch territory WOW that's some funky reverse karma you got going on Don , just thinking back to Tuesday night and the flat tire and jack thing Just bring a few good lumps of wood and your bottle jack will be golden............ |
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Post by CrazyBrit on Jun 26, 2015 19:17:25 GMT -8
How high did you have to jack it up ? That's the beauty of stock - I didn't (much!) |
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Post by PICTUP on Jun 26, 2015 19:18:22 GMT -8
I don't have no karma, I'm an IFDP |
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Post by CrazyBrit on Jun 26, 2015 19:23:42 GMT -8
The big round bit at the rear end of the gearbox that the flywheel fits into. There is a small bushing pressed into the gearbox housing to support the end of the starter motor drive shaft. |
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Post by Volktales on Jun 26, 2015 19:29:36 GMT -8
You guys are funny. If you are sure you have a six volt starter, do you have the matching six volt flywheel to go with it. In most cases the teeth number are not compatible between 6 volt starters and 12 volt flywheels. Did this particular starter and this particular flywheel work together in the past? If so you could have issues with the bushing in the transmission, or maybe your brushes have had it. The solenoid contacts may be failing too. Check your wiring connections to the starter and the main ground strap before you get carried away. Was the surface where the starter bolts to the transmission nice and clean and NOT painted! Paint will cause poor electrical ground connection here. If you need specific starter parts, I have several for parts. Those fibre washers are carried by one of the main US suppliers like Bus Depot or Wolfsburg West, but I can't remember which at the moment... That carb and distributor are not the best playmates, but many have made do. Flatspots are hard to avoid however...
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Post by mitchy965 on Jun 26, 2015 21:25:35 GMT -8
a quick test for the starter grd circuit is to use a pair of good quality (pre Chinese tire) jumper cable from the lower starter mounting bolt to the battery (-)of course, if it starts better you know its on the grd side. my guess is a tired starter and a worn out bushing,id clean up that old starter motor and pop in a new bushing,might do it! as Russ stated, the carb/dist combo .... well.. you will never be happy. i spent many,MANY hours trying to tune the carb to the curve of the ohoh9,and you end up with a car you have to drive like a hopped up punk to get over the flat spots or drive like a blue haired super safe granny so you dont cause a flat spot.accel pump,idle,main advance,retard i tried every trick i had over the course of several years and got close but it still sucked.i sold the motor later to a guy who gave me a set of kadrons to install for him and on the entire road test i ass kicked myself,it ran so fricken nice!
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Post by CrazyBrit on Jun 27, 2015 4:09:08 GMT -8
Thanks Gent's. I removed the starter and bench tested it with a pair of jump leads and a length of wire from the small "ignition" connector. It kicked out every time and would sometimes turn over, but not every time. The mating surfaces of the starter and transmission are not painted. To the best of my knowledge the starter grounds through the transmission? The starter and the flywheel were on the bus when I had it in the UK and they worked fine. However both have been sat in storage for several years. The starter worked when I first installed the motor a month ago, but then I had to pull the engine back out to resolve a couple of issues. Now it doesn't want to play.
When you talk about the bushing, are you referring to the one pressed into the back of the gearbox, or are you talking about internal bushings in the starter? As best as I can see, replacing the bushing on the gearbox housing means pulling the engine again to do the job...
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Post by CrazyBrit on Jul 1, 2015 16:27:54 GMT -8
I am now back from work. This is the solenoid. I am fairly certain that this is where my problem lies. It clicks out, but then nothing. I am suspecting that there is a lack of current flowing to the starter motor once the solenoid throws out the spigot. I thought that it was bolted together, but it is actually riveted, so once I grind off the rivets, there is likely no turning back.
Is there anyone in town that rebuilds starters and solenoids? Is this an expensive affair?
The brushes seem a little worn, but they are still tight against the springs. Are these early type brushes easy to obtain? Other than being a little dirty inside, the starter looks to be in good condition, despite being nearly 58 years old! Attachments:
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Post by PICTUP on Jul 1, 2015 17:03:00 GMT -8
Is there anyone in town that rebuilds starters and solenoids? Is this an expensive affair? A and B by the airport. I got my 62's done for under a $100 from what I can recall. They are great at what they do and won't hose you for what you need. www.aandb.ca/A%26B/Home.html |
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Post by busaddict on Jul 1, 2015 23:45:34 GMT -8
I think I paid $150 (with core exchange) for a reconditioned 12 volt starter for my '73 1700 a couple of years ago at Brian Roberts Auto Electric in Victoria. At the time I was told a new Bosch would have been $350. They said the rebuilt one would be "better than new" and seemed to stand by their work. It's still working well past the warranty. Might be a bit out of your way, just some feedback. Brian Roberts Auto Electric brae.ca/"At BRAE we specialize in custom repairs, high output alternators, high torque starters as well as restoration of antique, vintage and classic units."
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