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Post by Rob Sannes on Mar 29, 2021 15:56:41 GMT -8
Well it's a sad day for my 56 I had to pull the motor.. While out on a drive a few days back, my car is running great. I was thinking about dropping the air jet to see if I can get it to pull a little harder between 6300 and 6500 rpm and I come to the intersection if Mostar and the inland hwy. As I pulled to a stop up next to a 3rd generation camaro a plume of oil smoke followes me. As I'm stopped I blipped the throttle to see if it would belch any smoke. I didn't see anything out the mirror so didn't think much. The guy in the camaro thinks I wanted to race and just launches into a left turn burning the tires. So as I mildly take my left he drifts in front of me then back to his lane as his car is blowing grey smoke so I think no worries. I stopped to say hi to my neighbor and my car pooped oil in his driveway. I clean up the mess and when I got home I found a piece of pushrod tube seal in my rocker box and knew I was in for some work. I thought about some of the multi piece racing type tubes to save time but have not heard good things about them. I had been useing stainless steel "windage style" with the extended ends at the case side in the car  and the split seal  you can see the swelling of the white seal on the numbers intake tube  So out comes the motor and stripped it down to pull the heads.    One thing I noticed but have never really had an issue with before is the tubes I used are squeezed right down tight at the bellows. I usually install them with a smear of oil but no sealant. I have some stock tubes and a new set of tubes from CB performance on the way. So other than a 10 cent part failing this motor seems pretty happy. Hope to have it back in and running by the weekend. I'm optomistic at least. While the motor is out I will give it a detail in the engine bay move some of my fuel and breather system around.  The fuel pressure gauge on the right side is in the way of the breather and fuel line and makes it hard to disconnect. I will swap that around so it's only the fuel line on the left side with the pressure gauge. Cheers |
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Post by Volktales on Mar 29, 2021 16:54:08 GMT -8
That sucks that the seal split like that. Have not seen that before. There must be some kind of quality made multi piece pushrod tube out there, isn't there??? Good thing you like pulling motors out for fun....  |
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Post by owdlvr on Mar 29, 2021 19:37:14 GMT -8
I used the stainless windage tubes for years, without problems. I suspect you just had an old or bad pushrod tube seal. Which CB tubes do you have coming? At the suggestion of K-Roc, I have been using the CB Racing pushrod tubes on all my builds for the last four or five years. www.cbperformance.com/product-p/1565.htm They use half Type-1 and half Type-4 pushrod seals - www.cbperformance.com/product-p/1566.htmI can check my box, if I have a spare set that you want to replace you could whip out and get 'em. -Dave |
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Post by Rob Sannes on Mar 29, 2021 20:15:25 GMT -8
Thanks Dave, I have the 1567 same as the 1565's but in stainless coming and 2 sets of the seals for them. My order should be here tomorrow. I can't believe CB they are less money than the windage tubes from cip1 and I ordered last Friday.
It's a bummer the guy who built this motor didn't catch that bad seal haha.
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Post by owdlvr on Mar 29, 2021 20:19:35 GMT -8
Nice! I normally order the stainless as well, but I think my last two sets came via AVR, and they stock the non-stainless.
Good to hear you've got 'em coming!
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Post by Rob Sannes on Apr 1, 2021 10:42:36 GMT -8
Dave this is the first time I have used type of tube. Is there anything in particular I need to watch out for with this style since they use type4 and type 1 seals. I have never owned or worked on a type 4 motor.
I feel like I should just lube the oring and shove it in the head side? Haha that reads kind of funny.
Anyway heading out to the garage to do a little work.
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Post by owdlvr on Apr 1, 2021 12:54:15 GMT -8
I put the o-ring and pushrod tube seals on each, and then smear a little Permatex aviation gasket maker on each before installation.
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Post by Rob Sannes on Apr 1, 2021 15:12:08 GMT -8
Thanks Dave for the advice. I did that for the first few motors I built but went away from it after being advised against useing it and haven't had a problem with the seals before now with just a bit of oil and tourqing down the heads in incremental pattern. So for those that might be interested here is a photo of 3 types of stainless tubes stock, windage and a cb performance raceing windage tube.  You can see the lengthened end on the case side of the tubes to help keep oil around the crank and harder to be forced out to the heads during hard driving. The other has a wider opening on the head side to solve pushrod clearance issues when running hi lift cams with ratio rockers. Here you can see one opening is slightly larger.  I a FK-8 .380 lift cam with 1.4 ratio rockers and had a issue of 2 pushrods giving a witness mark on them so I just rolled the lip in the tube to get the clearance when I assembled the engine the first time. I should be able to install these without modification. Always clean your parts these were pretty dirty.    |
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Post by Volktales on Apr 1, 2021 19:11:28 GMT -8
There are different schools of thought on that type of lower tin. Some say they work great in a Beetle, some say they were only designed for Type 3 applications. For those that are not aware, Type 3 engine compartments are not "sealed| like Beetle and bus engine compartments. I don't know which is better, just pointing this out...
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Post by CrazyBrit on Apr 1, 2021 20:01:18 GMT -8
I believe that they are known as Supercool tins. I read and read about this on thesamba. Lots of "experts" and lots of opinions. In the end I removed the ones that Scat supplied with my engine and fitted an OEM set of flat tins.
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Post by Rob Sannes on Apr 1, 2021 20:59:04 GMT -8
Oh yeah thanks for noticing Russ I was wanting some opinions on those. My 2332 motor had them and it ran kinda hot. I always have used the type 1 style tins. Like Mark mentioned there are good and bad reviews. I think I am going to stick with what I have on it now as it is not overheating and running great other than the oil leak. They sound like they would work ya know "Super Cool Tins"
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Post by Rob Sannes on Apr 5, 2021 10:46:12 GMT -8
So I am convinced the cause of my pushrod tube seal was a poorly manufactured or designed. The windage tubes I used were just too long and not made to be used on a stock width motor in my opinion. When installed on my motor the bellows were completely bottomed out and the only thing that could give was the seals wich were cut when I installed the heads. The windage style pushrod tubes would have worked on a motor that was wider than stock. The CB performance tubes are nice and were easy to install. The bellows are not collapsed and fit great in my application.
I will update after I get this car back on the road. I sadly am in the middle of a clutch replacement on a 8th gen Honda for my son and that is a job I will never want to do again.
Cheers all hope to be cruising again soon.
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Post by Volktales on Apr 5, 2021 13:19:23 GMT -8
Oh come on. Hondas kick ass!  |
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Post by Rob Sannes on Apr 5, 2021 13:39:20 GMT -8
Oh come on. Hondas kick ass! Yes you are right that Honda is kicking my ass. We did clutch master and slave as well. |
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Post by mitchy965 on Apr 5, 2021 15:45:41 GMT -8
which seals did you use Rob?? the ones in the gasket set?
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